Real Conversations

Real Conversations

A Sermon

Series: This is Us, for Real

September 6th, 2026

Laguna Niguel Presbyterian Church

INTRO TO THIS IS US

Our preaching text this morning comes from the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 18. We’re beginning a series of messages called “This is Us, For real” which covers the lectionary passages in Matthew 18 and 20 as well as end of Romans and the beginning of Philippians. We’re following the Revised common lectionary which is a shared resource for many churches, and we’re noticing the ways in which these passages in Matthew and Philippians and Romans are about the relational life in the community of Jesus. They are not only about ancient life in Rome, Philliip and Jerusalem but about contemporary life in the South Orange County. These texts, these community codes are for us – the church today – this is us, for real.

 “This is Us” is also a Television series that ran on NBC for six seasons 2016-2022.  that followed a fiction family, the Pearson’s, living in two different timelines, current day young adults in their 20-30’s and their childhood and their parents lives’ in the 1980’s or 90’s. 

The television show had good storytelling because it revealed how relationships shape a family across generations. In a different way, our texts from Matthew, Romans, and Philippians reveal how relationships shape the community of Jesus. The question of this series is simple: What kind of community are we becoming? Today’s answer to that question is that healthy Christ centered community depends on real conversations.

We’ve already read from Romans 13 now let’s read Matthew chapter 18, verses 15-20.

READ: MATTHEW 18:15-20

WELL, YOU’RE AN ANTISEMITE

If you were to put Matthew 18 into practice in our culture, it won’t take you long to find people who love to “point out a fault”. 

Mark Roffalo, aka Bruce Banner aka The Incredible Hulk, the actor pointed out fault on X, formerly known as Twitter, criticizing the potential merger of Paramount Skydance and Warner Brothers. Ruffolo was pointing out the fault of a statement made by a board member of Paramount, also an executive at Oracle, who made some interesting comments about the conflict between Israel and Hamas, siding strongly with the Israeli miliary. You know, safe dinner conversation with your extended family. So, what does Paramount do? They return the favor, pointing out a fault in Ruffalo, labeling him antisemitic.

It’s a not-so-fun example of how culturally, pointing out faults can be hazardous. It can create division and amplify discord. The truth is lost because it depends on whose side you’re on. Some consider Ruffalo brave and virtuous while others see him ignorant and misguided. So, the blame game and finger-pointing continue. Maybe I’m being cynical. Maybe a thread of truth emerges amid the carnage. But it’s hard to tell if progress is being made or justice achieved.    

SPILLING THE TEA

Not only do we love to point out faults, we also love to talk about others. Gen Z has an expression called “spilling the tea”. It means sharing interesting gossip or juicy personal information. So, if your granddaughter tells her friends all about the family argument the night before, she is spilling the tea. Why do we like to spill the tea? Because it connects us. If the tea is about the faults of other people, hearing our version of the story creates an empathetic response, “Wow, how could they treat you like that?” If the tea helps us connect with whomever we’re spilling it with, we have endorphins that flood our chemistry and mirror neurons that flood our brain. It feels good to connect at the expense of other people’s faults.

But that kind of tea has toxins. It does not build a loving community, it leads to distrust, slander, strife, division and cliquishness.

JESUS’ VISION

That may be how relationships work in much of our culture, but Jesus envisioned a different kind of community. In Matthew 18, Jesus instructed his followers to point out faults, to have real, truth-telling conversations. The difference between our culture and the culture Jesus envisions is not whether faults are addressed. The difference is how they’re addressed. Our culture rewards public accusations. Jesus aims for real conversations that protect people’s dignity and work for reconciliation.

Indeed, Jesus envisioned a counter-cultural community – one where, in the words of theologian and social critic Oz Guiness,  repentance, reconciliation, justice, and shalom which means “peace” or “wholeness” is the normative cultural experience.

FRANCIS’ VISION

Repentance, reconciliation, justice, and shalom is a wonderful four-fold description of what “church” is supposed to be all about. Francis of Assisi who gave away his wealth and lived a simple life of love once said it this way “We have been called to heal wounds, to unite what has fallen apart, and to bring home those who have lost their way”. Indeed, that sounds like a mission statement for the community Jesus envisioned.  

Yet so many people distrust the church, sometimes for reasons that are misguided and ignorant, sure, but also for reasons that are accurate. The church can fall prey to toxic tea, to cliquishness, divisiveness, distrust, slander and strife not to mention scandal and spiritual trauma. The church can do damage, and when it does, not only are people hurt and scandalized, but the church fails at its primary calling - to be a faithful expression of the beloved community that belongs to Jesus.

JESUS’ INVITATION

Jesus knew that to live out his vision of repentance, reconciliation, shalom and justice – what he called the kingdom of heaven – the church would need to be a place of real conversations. The church is not just a place where nice people say nice things in nice ways to other nice people. The church is a place where lost people find their way, where things that have fallen apart are unified, and where wounds are healed.

DIALYSIS

And real conversations lead to a healthy communal culture. A healthy church culture is like a dialysis machine. The church makes individuals and communities healthier and more adaptive by filtering toxins out of our systems. That’s what real conversations can do.

The filtering process is rarely comfortable. In the same way, real conversations are rarely comfortable. Yet without them, resentment, gossip, misunderstanding, and bitterness remain in the bloodstream of a community. Jesus' process helps remove those toxins before they become destructive

So, Jesus invites his followers to point out one another’s faults – to have real conversations about wrongs done, or misunderstandings, or violation of community values. Again, in Matthew 18, “if you’re brother or sister sins against you go point out the fault”. Jesus says just have the real genuine, slightly awkward, perhaps clumsy conversation when you alone with that person. And if that fails, then you call together a little intervention with two or three others. And if that fails, you involve the leadership of the church. And if that fails, you treat that person as you would anyone who doesn’t belong to the community of Jesus. You don’t shun them, that’s not what’s implied. You simply recognize that they’re choosing a different life than one of repentance, reconciliation and shalom. The best you can do is pray for them and do your best to leave at peace with them, hoping they return to the ways of Christ.  

Jesus’ practice of real conversations would not apply in every relationship. There are times for your own protection you would not point out the fault of another. If there’s a power differential, if there’s potential for abuse or danger to you, you wouldn’t follow this teaching. But those are the exceptions to the wisdom of Jesus. Jesus’ teaching assumes a level playing field and a genuine relationship. “If a brother or sister sins against you”. If someone in the church whom you know and love and has become a sibling in Christ sins against you, you are called to have a real conversation that person. You are called to give feedback no matter how awkward or clumsy. In Jesus’ vision this would make for an emotionally healthy community life and…

Man, would I rather just go spill the tea on social media. I would rather just complain to my barber. I would rather just call my mom. That’s so much easier! It would feel way better! I would get a little empathy out of it. I would feel connected with that person with whom I dished or vented. They would rally for my cause, demonize or at least stereotype the other person. That’s what we do. That’s normal.

That’s not the vision or the wisdom or the teaching of Jesus. Notice that Jesus is not merely solving interpersonal conflict. He is forming a certain kind of people. The way the church handles conflict is itself part of our witness to the world. We do not simply proclaim reconciliation; we practice it.

REAL CONVERATIONS IN COLLEGE

I was junior in college when my dorm neighbor, he lived next to my roommate and I, we all shared a suite, sat me down to tell me that I had violated the college’s community guidelines. At my small private Christian university, to violate to community guidelines was a big sin. We had signed a document that we wouldn’t engage several behaviors that were on other college campuses extremely normal. So, he sat me down and to begin he quoted Matthew 18. It was melodramatic, and a little awkward, and his approach a tad clumsy, and I remember thinking at the time “this is so lame”. The violation didn’t involve substance abuse, nor illicit sex, it a small infraction. I had let a girl who was visiting campus crash in the guy’s dorms. Oops. She was a friend of mine and didn’t know anyone else and needed to rest. So I thought, “No big deal”.

But it was a big deal to my suite mate. And when he sat me down to confront me it was clear that he was a novice at real conversations. The conversation was clumsy, and a tad awkward. But it was also real. He was not manipulative or judgmental but sincere. This was him simply trying his darn best to do the Jesus thing. And despite all my internal resistance, I said sorry. He said I was forgiven; we moved on. And this moment was a small part of my turning to the light of Christ. It was a witness to his taking Jesus seriously. 

I’m sure my suite made grew spiritually by practicing the wisdom of Jesus, but do did I. I grew exponentially by receiving the critical feedback. Which leads to an uncomfortable question: What if the greatest challenge in Matthew 18 is not confronting someone else? What if it is being willing to hear the truth about ourselves?

THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK

In their book Thanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of Receiving Feedback Well by Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen argues that most people focus on how to give feedback better, but the real key to growth is learning how to receive feedback well. The authors, who are associated with the Harvard Negotiation Project, contend that the receiver ultimately decides whether feedback leads to learning and change

The wisdom of Jesus was privy to this truth well before the leadership development literature of our day. Earlier in Matthew, chapter five, Jesus would teach us that if we want to point out the splinter in someone’s eye, we had better take out the plank in our own. It was as a vivid way to describe the need for prayer and self-examination before we point out other’s faults.

EXAMINE YOURSELF

So, if we do happen to be the one giving feedback, we had better begin by examining our motives, goals, and hopes. We cannot reflect the love of God if we’re judgmental, of if we are venting our anger and frustration, or if we’re unwilling to check our ego at the door. Ego and anger and judgmentalism will kill a real conversation, leading to more hurt, damage, or spiritual trauma.

This is true in college dorms rooms, in marriages, and within our families of origin. Examining our motives, receiving critical feedback well, living a peaceful posture among our people is the most difficult yet spiritually mature thing we can do. Jesus’ vision is entirely practical.

BIND AND LOOSE

Here in Matthew 18, Jesus will go on to say that we bind on earth will be bound in heaven and what we loose on earth will be loose in heaven. The quality of the church’s relational life is powerful, powerful enough to bind and loose spiritual forces for good and for harm. It is amazing, humbling, and inspiring that God gives the Jesus community so much influence in the Jesus mission. Yet he does. Our words, our interactions, even our posture toward one another have power to bind and loose powers beyond our understanding.

ARMOR OF LIGHT

That insight helps us understand why today's Romans passage belongs alongside Matthew 18. Paul describes two different ways of community life. One way is marked by strife, jealousy, excess, and self-indulgence. The other is marked by neighbor love and the armor of light. Matthew 18 shows us what neighbor love and that armor looks like in practice. Notice the severity of the metaphor – the armor or light. War is begin waged against the community that belongs to Jesus and what we need is armor. And armor looks like honesty. It looks like humility. It looks like hard conversations conducted in love.

TRUTH & RECONCLIATION

If Matthew 18 applies to everyday disagreements, the same principle also operates on a much larger scale. Reconciliation, whether between two church members or an entire nation, requires truth-telling.

In the 19909’s the truth and reconciliation commission emerged out of post-apartheid South Africa. Apartheid was a 24-year project, 1960-1994, where the black majority in South Africa were systemically and violently oppressed and marginalized. The commission, led by the Archbishop Desmond Tutu, was the nation’s attempt to build a better way forward, not just by penalizing perpetrators of horrendous abuses, which would have been just, but by creating the opportunity for real reconciliation. What was unique was the public platform developed to hear victim’s stories. There were stories of horrendous violence done to family members in plain sight of the victims to intentionally traumatize. Despite the risk, the shame, these social “sins” had to get named for genuine reconciliation to be even possible. Was it perfect system, no? Did the reparations, sometimes monetary sometimes in the form of education or therapy fall short of justice? Yes. But did forgiveness happen, did reconciliation happen in some corners of the proceedings? Yes.

The situation in South Africa is obviously not comparable in magnitude to the life of a local church. Yet the principle is the same: healing begins when truth can be spoken and heard.

NAVIGATING COMPLEXITY

The church today cannot mirror Hollywood or online echo chambers. It must be a place where we can about difficult things – be it the Israeli-Palestian conflict, or the merger of two media conglomerates, or labeling of anyone as anti-Semitic – as well as the myriad of social issues that plague contemporary society. And, as the church navigates this compex world, it can do so with warmth and grace. Yes, mistakes will be made as the church navigates these complex topics or as the church navigates everyday and ordinary community life – be it in the nursery, or the kitchen, or between friend groups, or between generations.

TALK TO ONE ANOTHER

The world teaches us to talk about people. Jesus teaches us to talk to people.

Throughout this week we will be given opportunities to talk about people. We will be tempted to vent, complain, spill the tea, gather allies, and tell our version of the story. Jesus offers a different path. Go to your brother. Go to your sister. Have the real conversation. Receive feedback when it comes to you. Speak the truth in love. Listen with humility. In doing so, we become the kind of community Paul calls the armor of light, the kind of community Francis envisioned – one where the lost find a home and healing happens, the kind of community Jesus imagined in Matthew 18. This is not merely what the church did. This is us, for real. Amen.